I also like Vltor clamp on gas blocks protected under a free float handguard on a precision build. I was in the Service when the -A2 came out. I’ve often wondered about that. Realizing that the “solution” they presented didn’t actually solve a problem, they tried to course correct. There was no going back. said: KevinH: You are correct that the 16-inch barrel “M4gery” positions the front-sight assembly/bayonet lug too far to the rear on the barrel for a mounted bayonet to be of much use. All free-floated, of course. I can totally relate to- (I carried M16A1s from 1970-1998, when I finally got the -A2, then carried M4s in Afghanistan and Iraq. and a G7 ballistic coefficient, this means a 20″ rifle will get the bullet going fast enough to fragment reliably to 125m and sorta-reliably to 160m. While everything stated in the article above may well be true, I do not believe that the government profile barrel is “dumb.” The increased thickness beyond the front sight block dampens barrel harmonics, and reduces deflection from sling tension, making the weapon more accurate. The Criterion Barrels AR-15 SBR … It isn’t a shovel, it isn’t a hammer, it isn’t a pry bar, and as for bayonet charges, you’re not going to do one. ! And the top end AR-15 manufacturers need to get away from fabricating “government profile” barrels. I had many years of experience shooting free-floated, national match ARs with full, 1″ profile barrels under the handguards before I acquired a cheap, government profile, non-floated 16″ midlength, and I was surprised at how accurate the latter was. That would have been because of a change in barrel harmonics due to being pinned at the wrong point. On May 13, 2019 at 10:41 am, Badger said: The profile even differs within makers. My favorite is the .625″ at the gas “pencil” (pick your barrel length). This was where the Armorer’s Drop Gauge was getting stuck. To me, it doesnt make that much of a weight difference and it seems government profile barrels are more accurate. “Affect” isn’t just use in an emotive context. Regarding bayonets: Don’t say “never.” They have been used in close combat up through near-current times. I have some experience with the Government-Issue items.). Which is what my favorite GM M16A1 had. Why not issue one of those small, flat, light-weight prybars that are made for the job of opening crates, and useful for many others? Ever. I remember that a switch to the heavy barrel was to alleviate that.. Your statement is almost 100% correct, but not quite. I own a AR15A2 purchased in 1988 that I used in service rifle matches and saw this change in POI until I added a free float tube that moved the front sling swivel to it and off the barrel. I’ve reviewed several of their barrels over the years and really like their stuff for the price point. I thought the Gov profile was dumb on the face of it from the first moment. Engineer types might appreciate that. The second law of thermodynamics says that entropy always increases. Profile is the first thing we are going to talk about. Barrel Contours: Tale of the Tape. Thanks Herschel, always wondered about those goofy looking things. Several com’l makers make what THEY call a “Gov’t profile” and it is something completely different than MILSPEC A2 (I know this from measuring & comparing an OEM A2 with a replacement gov’t profile), and lighter by about 8-12 oz. On May 13, 2019 at 8:46 am, Herschel Smith said: If you saw a change in POI, that wouldn’t have been because of barrel deflection or bending. Discretion being the better part of valor, etc. “The bullet exits its forward end.” I just read you the book. W/ a 300 yard zero, differences are seen at 100+ yards w/ 100 and 200 yard POI running higher and 400 yard POI running lower. W/ a 300 yard zero, differences are seen at 100+ yards w/ 100 and 200 yard POI running higher and 400 yard POI running lower. What I found was a mound of bullet jacket material at their gas ports. They’re dumb. Some years ago he shared the story of the government profile barrel on AR-15.com. 2nd reason: You’ve just emptied your magazine, no time to reload, and there are still one or more bad-guys within easy reach – drop your empty rifle and grapple with them? They obviously never got real engineers involved in this problem. Ask your Marine son about the Battle of Bloody Ridge on Guadalcanal, or any of the dozens of other close-range engagements Marines fought against fanatical Japanese forces in the Solomon Islands or on New Guinea. …There is so much idiocy talked about guns it’s nearly unbelievable. So we went with this “improvement.”. Below 2550 f.p.s. This is easier to achieve with a tapered barrel and easiest to achieve with a barrel of a constant (bull) profile. Next Level NLX 308 Government Profile Barrel. The USGI barrel profiles (often referred to as the Government Profile) enable the operator to carry their weapon for longer periods of time and deploy them faster than the heavier commercial H-Barrel counterparts. A related story walking down memory lane at “Fort Lost In The Woods”. To demonstrate a variety of options, we obtained four identical standard 16-inch mid-length gas system barrels with government profiles (and 0.750-inch gas block) from Bravo Company USA. -Sling bending 20″ pencil barrel and affecting POI is real — and the same bend applies to gov’t profile barrels since pencil under the HG. AR-15 lore tells us that GIs were using their rifles as pry bars to open crates, and they were bending the barrels by the muzzle doing it. If your needs involve longer range shots, government profile AR-10 barrels are available in match grade quality that allows the weapon a higher degree of accuracy. Right to Bear is pleased to offer you the Ballistic advantage 14.5-inch govt profile barrel (model #: BABL556010M), a U.S.-made quality barrel with a concentric design. When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. Profile is a way to describe how thick the barrel. The new technical data package was already written and put into effect. Some might say there is no excuse for this, ever, but in the middle of a firefight when you are being overrun, for sure soldiers will open those crates the fastest way possible, and future bent barrels be damned. Heat causes degradation of accuracy, so a heavier profile barrel is typically more accurate when shooting repeatedly. Just ask those terrified Iraqi irregulars, who fled at the sight of those British bayonets! From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. A government profile AR-10.308 barrel presents a fairly uniform diameter, this gives you the luxury of quite a number of choices for which handguard to use. It doesn’t do anything to dampen harmonics, in fact all the right angles increase the effect of harmonics. The 16” Government profile barrel is forged from 4150 Chrome Moly Vanadium steel, Mil-spec heavy phosphate coated and chrome lined with mid-length gas system. -Fighting knives, kukris, tomahawks, machetes, etc, are all superior for blade fighting to a bayonet. It makes even the newer Mini-14 seem inaccurate by comparison. Pencil barrel stress and heat zero testing. Regardless, w/ modern powders you DO NOT need 20″ of barrel in order to achieve full velocity. (maker dependent) & balancing much better in hand. The government profile barrel is also … had to qualify right after chow. Edged weapons have an outsized psychological impact upon the soldier, indeed upon almost all human beings, far in excess of their actual effectiveness on the battlefield. The Army wanted a heavier barrel for improved accuracy (no intent to get into the merits of that solution), but had to accept making only the front portion of the barrel, outside the handguards so as to be compatible with the M203. as far as possible and was still about 6 inches high and 3 inches left. 1-12 twist also less stabilized which increases likelihood of tumbling at lower velocities — but if shooting anything other than 55gr you want 1-9 or 1-7 ammo, even though it makes tumbling less likely… Also, the 55 gr ammo vs modern m855 62gr is a major difference as well. In a regular “Government” profile barrel there’s a “shoulder” that arises near the gas block. Contacted Ka- bar. On May 14, 2019 at 12:48 pm, SGM Settles (Ret.) M1 rifles are heavier towards the chamber and end up in what can only be described as a pencil profile. https://youtu.be/beaBDC8iS-E. On May 13, 2019 at 8:30 pm, The Wretched Dog said: Not withstanding anything written above, to what extent did the first 60% of the ‘government profile’ barrel remain ‘thin’ so as to be able to mount the M203 grenade launcher – without changing the mounting hardware? This enables shooters to rapidly … BA’s fluted SPRs (also in 16″ length) are also a great options for precision builds. Overall, this barrel should be suitable for any task you could throw at it. However, soon after I started using a borescope with a video recorder and monitor to inspect “bent” barrels. The original 20.5″ pencil barrel was, as I have been informed by folks who fought in Nam, specifically designed to get the full 3,250 fps out of 55 grain M-193, which was designed to tumble and break into pieces at that speed on hitting enemies. Lt. Col Lutz and his team realized that a heavy barrel all the way through was not a practical solution for a lightweight combat rifle like the M16. Check great and honest reviews! On May 13, 2019 at 8:16 am, Dean M Drews said: I totally agree. https://youtu.be/QTovPt4weIs, Pencil barrel and carbon fiber free float tube. Or gut them with your bayoneted-rifle before they can do the same to you? I told the DI SNAP ! All the while, the build slightly tapers towards the front of the barrel to allow for optimal barrel whip and harmonics. So I don’t see a lot of benefit to the average shooter beyond benchrest/precision competition use… YMMV. Both the USAMU and Marine rifle teams pioneered and drove the changes to the A1 rifle into the A2. On recent production models, Ruger has in fact thickened the barrel beyond the gas block to improve accuracy. “As best as I can tell, not only didn’t they solve a real problem, they didn’t even solve the pretend problem.” “But the government was already too far down the road. Im looking to get a 14.5 in, middy daniels defense (ill be building my next rifle after this) and im very used to government profile barrels being in the Marines. If you’re doing a bayonet charge, you failed to do whatever you needed to do to make it a stand-off fight. A lot of their techniques and choices of rifle components have origins in competition. On May 13, 2019 at 12:33 pm, warhorse said: the only use I’ve ever actually had for a bayonet was on a shotgun for controlling unruly protesters around the time of desert shield stateside..as a “do not grab my shotgun” device. -As civilians w/o airlift, etc, backstops, if you’re to a point of a bayonet charge, you’re best to retreat/strategic withdraw and fight another day than go down in a blaze of glory. -Bayonets — not saying never but as civilians we can carry sidearms regardless of “rank.” Bayonets are often used for soldiers prohibited from carrying sidearms. -Thickness in front of the front sight is dumb. Vietnam combat vets I know well affirm that it was deadly stuff, hauling ass and barely stable in flight, ready to tumble and break apart on contact. The Government Profile Barrel Fix We “experts” thought this bending was from rough handling like during bayonet drills, etc., as an absence of any mid-barrel handguard damage in these rifles made one assume the fulcrum of such bending was the bayonet lug. You want this barrel, really, if you want a barrel that you can take anywhere, this is the one. Milspec means that something was fabricated and built according to a specification, nothing more and nothing less. And if you go 18″, you really want an intermediate gas system, not midlength and not rifle even though intermediate is incorrect for SPR clones.”. How badly do YOU want to make it back home? Although most soldiers, even in the heyday of the bayonet, rarely used theirs for anything other than opening rations or other jobs in the field, on those rare occasions when the bayonets were used as intended, the grunts were glad they had them. 14.5″ Pencil Barrel with Attached Muzzle [Review] But now I’m finally reviewing their flag… As for guys using their rifles as prybars, you still had leftovers of McNamara’s 100,000 in place, so stupid human tricks are gonna be a lot more frequent. With the problem solved, the new barrel design went into effect. That lightweight barrel, now commonly called the A1 or “pencil” barrel, was good for snapping off single shots but not as good for full-auto shooting.At the request of the Marines the M16A2 was given a chromed bore and a heavier barrel profile forward of the gas block, mainly to minimize the chance of bending (one of the A1’s most common failures in close combat). I have had unbelievable success with the DD pencil barrels. In Basra in 2004, a force of around twenty British soldiers was ambushed and forced out of their vehicles by an enemy force of around one-hundred Shi’ite fighters. Some guns and parts are better than Milspec, and some are worse. On May 13, 2019 at 2:10 pm, Cold Warrior said: Interesting read, thank you. I remain unimpressed with folks who try to mistreat, abuse and beat up their guns only to complain when they don’t work. As best as I can tell, not only didn’t they solve a real problem, they didn’t even solve the pretend problem. ! M855 “green tip” was designed to penetrate light cover better than M193, with its steel core, and it does, but at the cost of about 200 f.p.s. Who will wait around, saying, “Hey sarge, you got some cutters for this steel band?” Hell no. Next Level sought out a manufacturer to meet those demands. The acronym is NOT “medivac” ! That’s stupid. I hope the British government decorated those brave men, not just for defeating a more-numerous enemy force who had the advantage of surprise, but for doing it largely with bayoneted SA80 bull-pup rifles. Third, if you believe the problem is that Soldiers or Marines are using their rifles to pry open boxes or crates, then teach them not to do that. Faxonstarted off as aerospace parts manufacturers so they got their stuff and tolerances down. You can prove this by comparing the AR platform to the Mini-14. First, I question their testing of the resistance to bending of a “government profile” barrel. Got back and shot a 93 out of 100. Shop TRYBE Defense 10.5 in Government Profile AR Pistol Barrel, 9mm | 33% Off 4 Star Rating on 2 Reviews for TRYBE Defense 10.5 in Government Profile AR Pistol Barrel, 9mm + Free Shipping over $49. So they made only the front of the barrel thicker to increase strength. SOP during those fights was that every Marine had a bayonet affixed to his rifle (whether it was a Springfield M1903 or an M-1 Garand) anytime they were on alert. These improved profile barrels also allow one to run lighter stocks like BCM or B5 Bravo vs the heavier magpul ACS-L, etc, that best balance the gov’t profile barreled weapons — lighter stocks keep improved balance intact. And to echo others, properly profiled barrels completely change the handling and balance of the AR15. The takeaway is this: don’t use your rifle butt as a hammer. 1. Accuracy is a matter of timing the bullet exit so the barrel is in the same spot (or close) in its vibrational movement when the bullet exits the barrel every time. -Mini-14s was more to do w/ barrel profile PLUS piston-system than barrel profile alone. When one puts his bayonet on the end of his rifle, he suddenly gets VERY serious, and the enemy has a choice: Meet him with HIS bayonet fixed, or run away. It’s great when people do the design based off half-baked ideas of what the problem is, and do the research only after design is complete and submitted. We “experts” thought this bending was from rough handling like during bayonet drills, etc., as an absence of any mid-barrel handguard damage in these rifles made one assume the fulcrum of such bending was the bayonet lug. On May 13, 2019 at 9:04 am, Frank Clarke said: I know next-to-nothing about barrels. There was internal pressure to make the entire barrel thicker. The best point to pin a barrel is not at all, i.e., the floated barrel fixes all of that. This is the first of two carbon fiber … This is one of the reasons the open-prong flash-hiders went away. Jarhead logik. The acronym is MEDEVAC. If anyone wants a deep dive on barrel making, InRangTV did a series of interviews with someone from Faxon as a supplement to their WWSD project. But Faxon’s barrels are stress relieved and if going super lightweight/pencil is likely a better call than BA, but a little more expensive. and then he and then another both spent some time firing it and then went to the armorers for that first of several qualifying steps. On May 15, 2019 at 10:52 pm, DAN III said: You still did not get it right. They come w/ standard pinned F marked front sight bases, so the cost of free float handguards isn’t necessary either. If you want the solid dependability of a government profile barrel in 14.5 or 10.5-inch lengths, we have them too. And, they say, it worked as designed. Tapered profile out front, for easier maneuverability. However, I did use my carry Ka-Bar once to pry open the seal on a case of 5.56. -M203s mount to the Socom profile which is heavy under the HGs, but with flats milled. There are cludges and work-arounds, but none very good for a carbine-length gas system and 16-inch barrel. Ballistic Advantage’s Hanson profile barrels from online resellers like Arm or Ally are great values. I favor a mid-length gas system which, with a 16-inch barrel, positions the front-sight/bayonet lug the same distance from the muzzle as the 14.5-inch M4 and the 20-inch M16A2/A3/A4. This build up was caused by a burr left from drilling/reaming the gas port. Ther… On May 13, 2019 at 3:52 pm, Lionhound said: I always assumed the reverse taper was to accommodate Colt listened, and even put out civilian M16A2 copies that still had the standard lightweight profile. VooDoo Innovations will achieve better velocity, accuracy, and longevity, over chrome lined or cold hammer forged barrels. Your rifle isn’t a spear. Other posts since my previous: Oh, … The Marines have always prided themselves on their marksmanship skills. As to the burr at the port: A fellow once asked a premium barrel maker (Krieger if I recall correctly) how they managed to drill their gas port in the groove rather than a land & be so clean about it. It is, quite correctly stated, dumb. Almost ANY government-profile AR/M-16 will outshoot a Mini-14 easily because of this. We sent three of them to Adco Firearms to be dimpled, fluted and turned down to a lightweight contour. As for bayonet use, am I wrong in thinking that a civilian 16″ barrel with a carbine length gas system and an A2 front sight, puts the bayonet lug in the wrong place, since the military M4 is 14″? To their credit they replaced the knife and sheath no questions asked. ….Mein Got, you’d think we were dealing with Black Magic the way some people talk. Colonel, US Army (Retired) Zero reason for carbine length gas on a 16″ barrel. RSS feed for comments on this post. I was doing some research on barrels and was a bit puzzled to find that so many top flight manufacturers (e.g., Daniel Defense, BCM, etc.) Some are just different than Milspec because the buyer wants a different machine for a different purpose or with different parts simply because that’s what he wants. The bayonet-affixed rifle as a combat weapon has been called extinct by some, but there have been occasional sightings. Which brings me to my favorite part about these government profile rifles – weight. Fatigue, metal lattice stretching and deformation, metal creep, rust, corrosion and a host of other problems will affect any machine. 0-300 w/ a 100 yard zero are nearly identical. It is the shooter behind the weapon. Ballistic Advantage creates every barrel as if it was their responsibility to honor the blank's full potential. While everything stated in the article above may well be true, I do not believe that the government profile barrel is “dumb.” The increased thickness beyond the front sight block dampens barrel harmonics, and reduces deflection from sling tension, making the weapon more accurate. AR15.COM is the world’s largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. down the road and I zeroed while the others ate. As has been previously noted, fixing bayonets gives a psychological advantage to the ones who are willing to close with and kill with a “spear-tipped” rifle. No sharp handguard cap shoulder for improved barrel harmonics and improved accuracy. Plenty of long-barreled AR-15 are capable of this level of accuracy, but they all weigh in North of 7 pounds. As with all machines they have their own set of critical parameters, but those aren’t that hard to define or to satisfy. Viewed as machines, guns are really very simple mechanisms, even automatics. So I don’t see a lot of benefit to the average shooter beyond benchrest/precision competition use… YMMV. Nope. Only if you have a full auto gun would I consider a cold hammered forged and chrome lined lightweight barrel over the above options… For these, you’re looking at FN/Palmetto Premium, BCM, Daniel Defense, Noveske, Sionics, etc. We had 1 day to zero and qualify I’m not certain if BA’s barrels are stress relieved, or not (probably not). Some are even up to 12 pounds with a scope and weighted stock. trailer. Accuracy is a matter of timing the bullet exit so the barrel is in the same spot (or close) in its vibrational movement when the bullet exits the barrel every time. The best research I can find on why such a thing exists shows the idea to be extremely dumb. It has given me 1-MOA accuracy with 69 grain Match Kings at 300 yards from a bench. Talk about a tough job! Caliber: 5.56mm NATO Barrel Length: 11.5" Twist Rate: 1:7 Muzzle Thread: 1?2x28 TPI (Threads Per Inch) Material: Chrome Moly Vanadium Outside Finish: Mil-Spec Heavy Phosphate Inside Finish: Chrome Gas System: Carbine Length Diameter At Gas Port: .750 Barrel Extension: A4 Barrel Profile: Government … If you think I wrong or don’t know the full history of government profile barrels, you can weigh in with comments. Match Kings at 300 yards teams pioneered and drove the changes to the armorers trailer Carbon free. Soldier adds IR/Visual lasers & lights on it them to Adco Firearms to be dimpled, fluted and down., handguards, gas tube, delta ring, front sight is.! Pass the Drop Gauge failure was something entirely different to meet those demands peer forces we removed this “ ”... 20 ' AR-15 AR15 barrel kit includes barrel, handguards, gas tube, delta ring front. Ascribed to, at least somewhat evaluating several options driving factor in the service when the -A2 came.. 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At 5/13 # s and effects analysis of the jungle will do that to ya fan! Been commissioned, not an ideal feature while patrolling in a regular “ government profile barrel kukris! Accurate when shooting repeatedly testing of the government was already too far down the.. Drop Gauge 8:16 am, brunop said: you still did not want solid! Sent three of them to Adco Firearms to be dependable, and longevity, over chrome would... Improve accuracy failure mode and effects analysis of the bayonet m Drews said: I next-to-nothing... On one of the M16A2 as well or don ’ t see a lot benefit... 16″ barrel taking 100 off the muzzle velocity, it ’ s profile... Barrel beyond the gas “ pencil ” ( pick your barrel length ) to describe thick. By comparison barrel taking 100 off the muzzle velocity, it ’ s barrels are made in-house from “ to! 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